Sarah Roberts
We’re excited to be bringing you this podcast produced by our company, ADV Marketing. ADV Marketing develops high quality and cost-effective marketing materials for a wide range of businesses. Our relationship driven business model and customized marketing solutions makes us the perfect partner for small businesses looking to grow. I’m Sarah, creative director at ADV Marketing. Join me here with the rest of my team on marketing matters every other Monday to discuss business to business marketing topics.
Now let’s get into the episode. Welcome to Marketing Matters, a podcast where we discuss all things marketing related and how it applies to your business. And I still have to look at my notes to say the intro, despite having said that intro multiple times in the past. But that’s okay. I’m Sarah Roberts, creative director at ADV Marketing. So happy to be here.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
I’m Morgan Hutcherson, account manager at ADV Marketing. And today we actually have a very special episode coming at y’all. We have a guest whose name is Greg. I’m going to pass it over for him to introduce himself.
 
Greg Dunn
Yeah, my name is Greg Dunn. I’m the marketing coordinator for Interact Energy Services and producer for the Pipeline Podcast Network.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yes. And we listen to that podcast as a resource for our marketing too, because you have really great informational educational content that comes out on that. So, we’re very happy to have your kind of like having a little celebrity in the energy marketing world because the Pipeline podcast is pretty well known. You have like pretty good listenership.
 
Greg Dunn
Listen, I can’t take credit for everything. I, I got hired into what was already a really well-built ecosystem and, you know, set of processes. But thank you. That’s wonderful to hear that the work we’re doing is appreciated and used and listened to. Acknowledged. Yeah, absolutely.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah. It’s always nice when you put out content that’s actually like hitting ears and eyeballs. That’s really nice. So, from that, we’re actually going to talk about kind of the maintenance of a podcast because there is a lot of work that goes into it. So, we’re going to talk about the essentials of podcasting, how to podcast effectively the different types, because we actually get common questions about like how do you even start podcasting? And there is quite a learning curve. For people that start and it’s a great way to highlight subject matter experts. It’s a really great way to highlight your team in like your internal talents. Yeah, but there is a couple of things you need to know in order to do it effectively. We’re going to start with that. So, this first section we’re calling Podcasting one on one because we’re going to just talk about basically the basics. I want to get your take, Greg, on what makes a podcast effective. So, give us like I know there’s a lot of answers this session, but give us like your top three, maybe top two however many tops you want of like little factoids for what makes a podcast a good podcast?
 
Greg Dunn
That’s yeah, there are a ton of answers to that question. I think the things that stick out for the podcasts that I work on, obviously timely content and relevant content, right? So having we have guests on all the time that are subject matter experts that are talking about things that are happening right now. A lot of times they’re on to talk about a regulation or a new rule or whatever the case may be. But it’s timely and it’s relevant. So that that would be a big one. And then distribution, just getting your podcast in front of the right folks, you know, and that I think that that really depends on the content. The focus, the subject of the podcast really depends on who you’re trying to reach using something, say like LinkedIn. That’s something that we have a lot of success with for our podcast, but that’s not going to work for every single podcast, right? So, it it’s just being aware of where your audience is and putting it in front of them as easily as possible.
 
Sarah Roberts
That’s a really good point, especially because of the content like topics we’re talking about and specifically our audience for who we work with in the energy industry. Because we always say like the energy industry is just a little bit behind every other industry with marketing. So, when other industries were doing podcasting, energy wasn’t. But now it’s becoming more of a thing. But when you reach an energy audience, you’re talking to a very specific audience, like they have certain habits, interests, certain information sources that they use and common listeners of the Marketing Matters podcast that listen to us frequently will know that we always talk about LinkedIn because that is the primary B2B marketing space so I’m glad that y’all plugged that real fast. LinkedIn is effective, if used correctly, with the right audience, so those are all really good points, and I agree with all of them. Before I move on to my questions. Morgan, I know you have a couple questions, too.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
Yeah. So, I guess just moving into like if you’re wanting to start a podcast and you’re you have no idea where to even start or what content you’re going to talk about, how would you go about selecting that content and finding, I guess, your podcasting specialty?
 
Greg Dunn
Yeah. So, there’s a ton of resources out there. YouTube comes to mind and there are, I don’t know how many but tons of videos that are available for walking you through, you know, kind of the steps. The problem that I think a lot of folks are going to run into is there’s almost too much information out there. There’s a ton of videos, a ton of blogs that list the five things you need to know to start a podcast and the ability to sort of weed through that information and find out what’s valuable and what’s just noise is that that’s something that’s going to make or break out how you start your podcast. But yeah, there’s, there’s definitely a ton of resources out there and yeah, I would say, you know, in addition to YouTube, I think reaching out to, to other content creators, big or small, you know, you’d be surprised reaching out to folks that have big, giant audiences. A lot of times they will still respond. And, and if you find the right person that’s passionate about podcasting and creating, more often than not, they’re willing to help. And even smaller shows or content creators reaching out to them, hey, what worked for you? What didn’t work for you? That can be a really good place to start, I think.
 
Sarah Roberts
And so along those lines, I want to latch onto something you said about there’s a lot of noise out there and that actually applies to anyone creating a podcast. So, you are one of the many, many voices out there in the many, many, many podcasts that are currently being created. So, in order to be effective, I would argue you have to find a specialty and a specific voice and niche. What we call we call that, and you have to make sure that topic is resonant. Would you agree with that?
 
Greg Dunn
100%, yeah. I mean, the I think that’s one of the beauties of podcasting is you can you can niche down to a super hyper specific audience and you can, you know, again, if you’re if you’re considering where you’re putting the message and where you distributing it, but if you get it in front of them, you can reach the folks that that, you know, again, the more niche and the more focused you get, the smaller your audience gets.
But those are the folks that you know, when you get these hyper specific topics, they’re the ones that are interested in it. So, yeah, absolutely. Finding that niche and, you know, really following it down the rabbit hole, I guess you could say to, you know, sorry. Yes. So, finding that niche and following it down to wherever it makes sense or whatever level of detail can be extremely effective. And, you know, it’s one of those things where I think I think I’d equate it to like YouTube years ago. YouTube used to be and now there’s just so much content. It’s hard to get through. But YouTube used to be the one place you could go to find a video on some random topic that nobody else has ever really searched, and podcasting, I think, has been sort of a gateway into these really specific, hyper focused targets that anybody can jump on and make a podcast. I think it’s become more accessible. And yeah, so, so I guess I hope that answers your question.
 
Sarah Roberts
It does. And I am glad you brought that up because a lot of what we talk about in marketing is kind of a balancing act between reach and engagement. And what we find is you can have really wide reach and low engagement because maybe you’re throwing a lot of content out there that’s really broad but doesn’t really speak to a lot of very specific people. Or you can have low reach, but really high engagement. Both can be good depending on your objective. So, if your objective is to reach a lot of people and educate a wide audience, maybe you do want a broader topic.
But if your goal is to engage an audience and build a community, maybe you do want the more specialized topic. Like maybe you want to go more focused, which we find in our energy content creation. Usually, it’s the it’s the specific because you don’t really have like a there’s a lot of energy one oh one podcasts out there. So, if you choose that route, it’s a lot of competition and you might not get the engagement you want, but if you find what you are an expert in, even if it’s a specialty, that can be key to developing your marketing strategy.
 
Greg Dunn
Absolutely.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah, totally agree. Okay, let’s talk about something that makes podcasting time intensive, which is what we call the additions, and that’s the transcript. The show notes, the artwork, the guest management, the prep for a podcast. A lot goes into that.
 
Greg Dunn
Yes.
 
Sarah Roberts
And it’s very underestimated by people starting podcast. I would say It’s actually one of the reasons why podcasts end is because of the prep work and the labor that goes in the podcast. So, what is your process? How do you streamline these editions? What do you go through to make that easier?
 
 
 
 
Greg Dunn
Yeah, So the additions I think are sort of a necessary evil is it’s one of the things where it is a ton of work, but if you don’t do it, you’re not setting yourself up for a successful show, right. And successful content. So, for instance, on, on the pipeline Podcast Network, we do we do full transcriptions for every episode.
We do detailed show notes with links and all of that. And I think there’s really two things that these help with accessibility and SEO and having the content searchable and available all through the website makes it makes a lot easier. We we’ve sort of, again, like I said in the intro, like I came into a system that was pretty well built. I’ve we’ve ironed out a few things and made it even more efficient. But you know, our process is, is pretty grueling just in terms of how long it takes and the work that goes in. And it is it’s thankless. There’s, you know.
 
Sarah Roberts
But important, though, it’s essential.
 
Greg Dunn
Yeah. You know, going in what you said about, you know, a lot of shows end because of this and I think I’m interpreting that sort of two ways, it’s either ends because it’s a ton of work and it just can’t get done or it doesn’t get done because it’s too much work or they’re not doing it. And so they’re not putting in those pieces that are in the background that make shows so effective and so successful. I will say of the one, you know, your transcripts and show notes and artwork and all that, guest coordination is the most confusing and time consuming. I think, because it’s, you know, especially and I can’t imagine for you all two calendars plus a third person, a variable.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
Yeah. Sometimes we’re looking at like four or five things.
 
Greg Dunn
Calendar coordination is not fun.
 
Sarah Roberts
And the people were having to have busy calendars.
 
Greg Dunn
Exactly.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
And then you have those factors with the guests. Like, are they going to come to a studio or you’re going to meet up somewhere? Are we going to do virtual? And like those each have their own pros and cons?
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah, flexibility is huge, actually. Let’s move on to that. Morgan and talk about the channels and the virtual versus physical. Like in-person is what I mean by physical. Like what? What have you seen work for us? I guess this is a question posed to you and like, what are the pros and cons that you’ve seen and then we will ask Greg for his input?
 
Morgan Hutcherson
I mean, I’m definitely biased towards the in-person ones. I think that there’s just a better conversation when you’re sitting next to someone and filming the podcast than when you’re on a virtual call. And that’s like for anything in life, like on a team’s call, I feel like I don’t relate to someone as much as I do, like sitting next to them. And it’s hard to pick up on those cues to like, we should we watch this next topic, like those silent things. But I mean, the virtual ones are great. If you have somebody that’s out of state that you’re like, I really want to talk to this SME. It’s going to be hard to get them to come down here and like we can’t go to them, but I don’t want to miss out on this opportunity.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah, the flexibility is key in general. Like you always have to go with the flow, with podcasting and producing. That’s just part of content creation. But I agree that in-person tends to be a little bit easier to film. Not saying you can’t have a great virtual guest, it’s just a little bit easier when it’s in person in our experience. Would you agree with that?
 
Greg Dunn
Yeah, absolutely. I think I think again, good and bad, right? There’s definitely a ton of good connectivity with, you know, Zoom or whatever you’re using to, to record remotely that’s enabled a ton more content to be created whether it’s juggling a calendar or, you know, geographic limitations, like having the ability to connect to someone on the other side of the world when it’s convenient for both of you is really great. But at the same time, yeah, I think there’s a, there’s a certain value to in-person interaction and in-person conversations. And so, I don’t know, I think I think striking a good balance between the two, I think, you know, it’s not an either or. It’s got to be sort of a both and you know, that that’s my take on it.
 
Sarah Roberts
All right. I agree. I think all good points. Before we go to our break, I want to ask you a question about frequency, because that’s another component to like the channel medium. What is your podcast look like? So, we have done a variety of different frequencies. Honestly based off time availability, like we were just talking about it a lot. It’s a big-time commitment for the prep, for a season, for filming the season, for all those good things. So, what are the pros and cons do you think, of having like a more frequent, like maybe weekly or biweekly versus like a monthly or bi monthly schedule?
 
Greg Dunn
Well, so I’m going to relate it back to what we’re talking about, you know, about the additions, right? The more obviously, the more you’re recording and the more you’re creating, the more that that back-end work stacks up. And so, you’re definitely putting yourself in a position to have to deal with more of that. So, I actually work with a show that comes out weekly and a show that comes out monthly, two shows that come out monthly. And so, seeing sort of the contrast between those two schedules, I’ll say having stuff come out weekly is good because there’s always something new to talk about and there’s always a new way to engage with the audience. Having shows come out monthly, it’s a little bit nicer with scheduling. It’s not as rigorous because there’s just not as much to schedule that can be deceptive, though. I mean, like you can get a little too comfortable.
 
 
 
Sarah Roberts
Complacent.
 
Greg Dunn
Exactly. And so, you know, it’s I think it goes back to figuring out your niche and how at number one, how much content is there to talk about? What’s the appetite for the content? Do you need more or is one a month enough if you’re doing longer form things than fewer episodes, is can be a good thing.
So yeah, I think it really depends, but man Weekly releases the Pipeliner’s podcast releases weekly and I mean, even when we’re ahead, it still feels like we’re just rushing to get it out and get every, you know, all those steps completed. Yeah, it’s tough to recommend one or the other.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah, there’s definitely a balance. So monthly to me is easier, like you said, but it’s also harder to engage an audience at that cadence and so when we do that, we actually view the podcast a little bit differently rather than like a canonical. I think that’s the right word in this situation as like different than like a series of things that build off of one another. They’re kind of like standalone episodes, kind of like how you’d write an article for a blog and then it’s kind of like, I guess it might be evergreen in that way. We’re just kind of lasts and then it builds engagement over time. A podcast episode can do that and can act like an article kind of just in a different medium. But you do have to realize that you’re building a podcast that is different than a typical podcast. So, you’re you have to have kind of a slightly customized approach to how you do it. But if it’s right for your business, maybe that’s the format that you should go with it. I don’t know. It just depends on what you want to talk about.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
Well, and that kind of makes me think, going back to like you were talking about getting ahead of episode.
So, you all kind of y’all don’t really like batch film the season.? You really if you film as you go.
 
Greg Dunn
Yeah. And again, that, that has its advantages and disadvantages. You know, staying ahead means you’re less stressed on some of the back-end work. But being a little bit more what’s a nice way to put behind?
 
Sarah Roberts
Dynamic.
 
Greg Dunn
I think that gives you some flexibility on the content. You can you can time things a little more effectively. You can engage on topics that pop up out of nowhere. And so, it has its advantages as well. And so, yeah, I mean, it’s one of those things where if we were six weeks ahead all the time, that’d be great, but it would make it a little more difficult to drop in because there are times where Russell Treat the host of the Pipeliner’s podcast, he’s we’ll have two or three or four episodes queued up and we’re good, but he’ll go to an event and he will take his podcasting gear anywhere and get content whenever he can because he loves doing it. And so maybe there is something that’s relevant and timely, but it’s hard to make room for it. So, then we find ourselves readjusting the schedule, moving things around. And so.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah, that’s dynamic.
 
Greg Dunn
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, dynamic. That’s a good way to put it.
 
Sarah Roberts
Which it’s good. Like marketing should be dynamic, actually. If anyone who’s ever out there in the audience listening to us right now has ever managed a social media channel. It is a lot like that because you do want to plan out and you want to have the time to create great things, but you also have to be relevant and timely with what you’re seeing. And if you plan too far in advance, then it’s like then you have to double check. All the content that you’re putting out is actually timely like it was when you planned it. So very, very good point. So, we’re going to break because we just have so much to talk about. And this podcast could go on forever about podcasting, but we’re going to break right now and we’ll be back to talk about podcasting on a budget.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
All right. Welcome back from that break, y’all. We’re going to move into the next part of the podcast episode, which is podcasting on a budget. And we’re going to talk through about three different levels of like minimal investment to where, like if you’re full on, want to make a podcast, what that looks like as far as equipment. So, I guess starting off with minimal investment, it’s really easy just to get started with the podcast and that’s because you can just have your iPhone and a pair of headphones and then like one of those little mikes if you want one in a splitter. So, what has been like y’all’s experience with starting a podcast and using the minimal investment?
 
Greg Dunn
Yeah, so I think starting a podcast with regards to equipment and how do I do it, I think the thing that sticks out to me is, is really great equipment has gotten cheaper and really cheap equipment has gotten a lot better. And so, you know, the gap there is a lot narrower. But yeah, the thing that I try to tell people when I talk about podcasting and starting a podcast is, you know, whatever tools you have use, most of us have a smartphone. If you have headphones that have the little microphone built in the line, or if you’ve got your Air Pods or what have you like, those will have microphones built in. And I mean, even using like the built in voice recorder on your phone is enough to get going and get something recorded. And so yeah, when you start out, the less you have to deal with and the fewer hoops you have to jump through to get started, I think is good. And again, the less expensive equipment, the minimal setup, a lot of times be just fine as far as audio goes and quality because again, the inexpensive stuff, the cameras and microphones on our iPhones and Android phones, whatever you have, those have gotten significantly better. So, it’s a lot easier to get started with minimal investment. You mentioned a splitter and I think something like a splitter is it’s so simple, but having it gives you a lot more opportunity for listening to audio leveling, recording in second person, what have you.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the minimal investment versions, the authenticity for those are unmatched because it’s like just you talking and like you’re using what you have. If it matches who you are as a brand, it can be really great fit and a really good way to start. I also will say that you don’t have to like jump in because we’re going to talk about two other levels of investment. You don’t have to jump in to the top-level right at the beginning. Like minimal investment can be a really good way to do a trial podcast, a couple of trial episodes, see how your audience reacts to a podcast, and then you know, whether it’s worth investing more into or not. And then you just build out your equipment. From there you’ll see like episodes or podcasts that have run for a really long time. Their equipment does change for that reason. Like they just get more invested into it as they want to do more so it doesn’t have to be like one in done. Choose your level now and then never change.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
I feel like we’re a prime example for that because when marketing matters started like it was all virtual film
 
Sarah Roberts
And audio only
 
Morgan Hutcherson
And audio only and like were what, for five seasons? Five seasons. And like just the progression. And even this past year, like what we’ve bought for podcasting equipment just for us and clients has really grown.
So, it doesn’t have to happen overnight.
 
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah, and equipment gets old, you have to replace things. It’s just the normal, normal podcasting life. 
 
Morgan Hutcherson
Okay, so let’s say you have a bigger budget now or you’ve been podcasting for a couple episodes, maybe a season or two, and you’re like, I’m ready to upgrade. What does level two look like for me?
 
Greg Dunn
For me I think level two, I say for me, for podcasting in general, I think level two is obviously taking the audio quality and elevating the production value of the audio itself. I think that’s sort of key. Better microphones are a big one. And again, it doesn’t have to be, you know, the sure sm7 B that everyone uses for podcasting, you know you see all these bigger podcasts but even you know, mid-range or you know, entry level mics are going to be better for audio quality than then. A lot of times what you’ve got built into your phone or what have you. So that’s a that’s a very small step you can take to make a sort of a big leap in audio quality. And then the little things that I think people don’t think about, things like pop filters and stands and, you know, one of the preamp mixers, those kinds of things like having more control over every aspect of the audio to get it dialed in is really the biggest step you can take, I think at any level. I think I think this level two is, is really where you get the most gain and you get the most back from it. And I think it’s worth doing if you get to that point. And I wanted to go back to something you said about doing sort of a trial, I think that’s a huge thing is figuring out if before you make this investment, like is podcasting something I want to do? Is it something I can do? Do you have time for it? All of those things. So, starting with a minimal investment and figuring out is it something I like doing, is that something the audience even wants? And then when those are both yeses, then you look at leveling up your game into, you know, again better microphones the fancier accessories that that just give that little bit of extra bump to the audio quality.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
It just elevates it enough because I feel like one of my biggest turnoffs when I listen to podcasts is the audio quality.
 
Greg Dunn
Absolutely.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
Yeah. Like if it’s grainy and like, okay, I can only listen to it for so long or like so many episodes, which like not saying you have to upgrade right away, but if it’s like consistently bad quality, I’m not going to keep listening.
 
Greg Dunn
Well, and I think that the important thing there is the quality of the content versus quality of the audio also matters, right? If you’re at that entry level stage, you’re just starting out. You don’t have the best equipment, but the guest you got on is really great. Or the topic you’re just discussing is really important. The content may supersede the audio quality in terms of importance. So yeah, just something to keep in mind.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sarah Roberts
I agree with that. I do. I do think the microphone is the thing. You focus on upgrading first. If you are looking to upgrade like don’t jump to video right then like first of all, people do listen to podcasts more than they view them. We have seen it time and time again across all the podcasts that we produce. That video’s kind of a good way to promote it. So, it’s a promotional thing, but people regularly and habitually listen. They don’t watch podcasts, at least the ones we do. That might not be the case for every podcast because like we’re marketing, so everything depends on something else. But for most of the time they listen to it. So, you want to you want to invest in your audio quality first. In my opinion.
 
Greg Dunn
I agree.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
Even when I like go to YouTube. I just put the video on in the background and like it’s easier for me to access it on YouTube, but I don’t sit there and watch them unless I’m like, they said, Look at the screen for this.
Then I’ll look at the screen.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yeah, but if I’m on LinkedIn and I see a video of a podcast, I’m like, oh a podcast to listen to. So in my opinion.
 
Sarah Roberts
Okay, let’s move on to the last level. So, like, what is the ultimate podcasting setup and what does that look like?
 
Greg Dunn
The thing is you can go as crazy as you want to go with your setup. So, whether that’s multi-cam setups where you’ve got two or three angles, a lot of times when you’ve got one person interviewing someone across the table, it’s sort of a two-cam setup or three cams if you’ve got an angle with both the host and the guest. So, there’s really no limit to how crazy you want to go with that final sort of stage of upgrade. But going back to what I said a second ago, that stage, I think you get less in return for these upgrades. So, I think I think this stage of improving or upgrading your podcast setup really is a I found my niche. I’m loving what I’m doing. This is something that’s long term and now I don’t necessarily need to do it, but I kind of want to do it. And I think that that’s important. And then obviously once your audio is dialed in and really great, you’ve got, you know, the right hardware, you’ve got a production rhythm there, that’s good. Then you can look at things like video and all of these as you further complicate the hardware setup, whether it’s audio, video or both. You have to keep in mind that going back to the additions, right, the additional stuff that has to get done, you’re further complicating that process too. So, it’s a little bit of give and take. If we want to do three cameras, that’s three different video feeds to edit together. So, it gets more difficult. But you know, again, if you’re at the point where you’re growing enough and you can justify the expense and the extra time, I think it’s worth it.
 
Sarah Roberts
I also think it’s important to note that with any content creation projects, you always have limits. You never have an infinite budget. So, you always have to work with what you’re given. So, you have to find kind of like you’re saying, what has the best cost benefit analysis associated with it? And if you’re looking to grow your audience, I think video’s a good way to kind of promote it like we were talking about before. But it doesn’t have to be doing anything crazy. Like you can just do a video of your setup and then use that to advertise your new episode. Like it doesn’t have to be the full thing. But if you do have access to a video equipment or an agency with video equipment that you can borrow or rent for an hour or so while filming, that could be a good way to boost. You can try it out. All that good stuff. I have seen lots of different kinds of setups and we always have to be mobile for our clients, so that’s a limiting factor. So, we always have to make sure our equipment is not only good in a stationary setting, but also like can we move it to places and can we set up in like a hotel conference room and can we set up at a conference and like all this stuff? So that’s another limiting factor. And then with that, like, can we carry it? Can we fly with it? Like all that stuff, which is not easy. That is for sure. My little arms can’t lift the big heavy luggage above my head very easy. But that’s okay. We just check it. It’s fine. But yeah, and always considering your environment, soundproofing is always a plus. I’ve been to really cool studios with really cool setups and like excellent soundproofing capabilities, but they don’t have to move their equipment around and when they set it, it’s set like things are bolted to the floor at that point. So that’s also just a commitment in general. Like, yeah, you sacrifice a room for that studio. So just stuff like that.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
Well, I think that wraps up our podcast. Anything else? I don’t have anything else. Thank you so much, Greg. We really appreciate the conversation. And also love podcasting about podcasting.
 
Greg Dunn
Yes. Listen, this could have been a couple of hours long. We could have talked about all kinds of things. There’re so many different aspects you can dive into. But yeah, I think this is a good high-level look at sort of getting started. Key considerations for somebody new to it and, you know, maybe some next steps to consider or to be mindful of.
 
Sarah Roberts
Yep, absolutely. Okay. Morgan, take us away.
 
Morgan Hutcherson
Yeah. Well, that has been marketing matters. We hope that you subscribe. If you haven’t, make sure to rate the podcast and we will see you in two weeks for another episode. Bye, guys.
 
Sarah Roberts
By y’all.